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Oldswatguy

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Reply with quote  #1 
I've been shooting recurve for a few years. Fun and hunting. I saw so much on the Samick Sage I had to get one. What a bow! $97 delivered. 50#.I currently own a Damon Howatt Hunter and did purchase a new Hoyt Buffalo a couple of years ago. Except for finish it is hard to tell the difference from the $800 Hoyt and my $97 samick. And just purchased a clone Hoyt Satori that cannot be told apart from the real thing. So are the big companies ripping people off? Thanks
jaz5833

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Reply with quote  #2 
I've had the same experience as you with the Samick and in the opposite direction with the Stalker. I bought a Samick as a travel bow and ended up passing it to my nephew, but it was as good, as any bow, on my rack and that's near 70.

Then for a while, I really lusted after a Stalker. A Friend let me keep his for two weeks, at which point, I discovered it was no worse, or better than all the bows I already had. But they sure are pretty.

That's what it comes down to - pretty and they put your name on it.

A Lincoln or Escalade pickup makes no sense to me either. Everyone I ever saw with one refused to haul, carry, or put anything in the bed for fear of a scratch. But I guess they make you look good.

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chuckc

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Reply with quote  #3 
Well...clear glass is selling for over $30 a strip. You need 2.

Wood other than dyed maple sells for $7-30 (or more) per board foot. You need several. Glue costs $40 for the two pint mix. If it will be a take down you have ( guessing) $10 in hardware, at minimum.

Heat, rent, enough for a couple bottles of beer.

A better question might be...how can someone make a bow, ship it around the world, and charge less than it costs us for the supplies to make that bow.

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ChuckC

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I did too !

Madison, Wisconsin.   Public land hunter
longcruise

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Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckc
Well...clear glass is selling for over $30 a strip. You need 2.

Wood other than dyed maple sells for $7-30 (or more) per board foot. You need several. Glue costs $40 for the two pint mix. If it will be a take down you have ( guessing) $10 in hardware, at minimum.

Heat, rent, enough for a couple bottles of beer.

A better question might be...how can someone make a bow, ship it around the world, and charge less than it costs us for the supplies to make that bow.


That's so true Chuck. 

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Longcruise
Colorado PUBLIC LAND HUNTER
Selden Slider

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Reply with quote  #5 
Chuck, when you consider where it comes from (made in China) you have your answer.  Labor is cheap as well as the supplies necessary to build a bow, or anything else for that matter.  I've seen and shot a Samick bow.  They shoot ok but the finish leaves a lot to be desired.  Open pores and thin coating caught my eye.  Might not mean much to some but in the overall picture it really does.  Of course this is only my opinion.  Your mileage may vary.  Frank
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Fallhunt

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Reply with quote  #6 

Just my opinion, of course.

In a past life I learned that a cheap single shot shotgun shot just as well as a very expensive single shot trapgun in regard to distance, pattern, and accuracy.  However, an expensive trapgun was tremendously superior in regard to weight, balance, durability, fit & finish, aesthetics, custom fit to the shooter, swingability, and felt recoil.  Usually the expensive gun did not inherently shoot any better when the human factor was removed (e.g., gun bench vise), but the typical shooter could often shoot the expensive gun better (i.e., higher trap scores).

Similarly a custom bow is tremendously more pleasing in regard to one’s personal taste in aesthetics and feel (draw smoothness, stacking, hand shock, etc.).

First, in my opinion, YES a custom bow is worth its increased costs.

Secondly, in my opinion, NO a custom bow does not shoot any better than a cheap bow in regard to accuracy.


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Southern Illinois
HHA Legend Stick Longbows 45#, 50# & 53#
HHA Tembo Longbows 30#, 40# & 45#
Bear Montana Longbows 30#, 40#, & 50#
Lemonwood Self-Bow Longbow 30#
Ben Pearson Pony Longbow/Semi-Recurve 30# (Purchased New Summer 1966)
Ben Pearson Super Jet Recurve (All Fiberglass) 45# (New Jan. 1970)
Bear Super Kodiak Recurve 55#

PROUDLY an Irredeemable Deplorable

James Donahue

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Reply with quote  #7 
Fallhunt 
 You hit the bottom line

bout explains it

see so many that look like just cut out with a band saw sanded and sprayed-- other ones  artistically sculptured  rounded flowing edges with an artistic pleasing look (more finished looking)

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fdp

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Reply with quote  #8 
  I don't know where you guys are buying supplies from but you are paying waaayyy too much.

 I can buy clear glass all day for $11.25 a strip, the most expensive component in the build is the glue if you use EA-40. And if you buy it in 55 gallon drums like the factories do it costs pennies.  If a bowyer is paying premium prices for materials, he is charging premium prices as well. He isn't donating anything.

But to answer the question no, Hoyt and such folks aren't ripping anyone off. For one thing Hoyt, Martin, Howatt, Bear and lots of other folks actually did the ground work and R&D for may of the designs that are being duplicated by both custom and factory shops now. So there's that.

Then you have the warranty aspect. Some custom bowyers and foreign companies have very good warranties, some are deplorable. Then, as mentioned, you have the whole quality of fit and finish aspect. But ultimately, no one forces anyone to pay any amount for a bow.

I would agree however that how much you pay for a bow has little or nothing to do with how well a bow shoots.


Hud

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Reply with quote  #9 
In the end, it is the arrow, not the bow that brings home the game. 
Sam

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Reply with quote  #10 
My first bow is a rather plain Ben Pearson Gamester that I bought at K-Mart many years ago for about $40.00 on sale. I now own a bunch of bows, some of which are very nice looking and rather costly, at least according to my income. Yes, I like the fancier, more expensive bows based on aesthetics, but they won't kill a deer any deader than my little Ben Pearson. So, looks and cost are not necessary for a serviceable bow. Those who are simply looking for a bow that will give dependable service at a good price can do well with some of the available less expensive items. Nonetheless, I like a classy looking outfit that shoots well. Right now that is NM Shelton made of yew. However, I am still confident that my little Ben Pearson will get the job done.
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Sam McMichael

Gray, GA

"The spirit of the bow dwells in the heart of all young men" - Geronimo

Hill Wesley Special (2, both 65#)
Hill Cheetah (2, one 55# and one 40#)
Hill Big 5 (50#)
NM Shelton (2, both 53#)
Deathwish Longbow (59#)
Archery Traditions Bamboo Longhunter (3, one 56#, one 60# and one 78#)

Tradslinger

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Reply with quote  #11 
well, this is just my opinion for what it is worth. I like the really nice customs too and have had a few over the years. But have had a few that were not big name customs that were a joy to shoot. I have a no name that I have shot for years and taken a lot of game with it but it is on the verge of just being over bowed for me now. What I was going to say was this, You can always refinish that cheaper bow that shoots good. this means even possibly staining it to a better color etc. Maybe even sanding it better as well. If I was doing that, I wouldn't be afraid to make some minor changes in the shelf or grip if it needed it as well. So I am just saying that since it is a cheaper bow, you can possibly make it look and feel a little or a lot nicer if you want to.   
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Tom M

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Reply with quote  #12 
I had my doubts about those China bows until I saw a few. I especially liked the White Feather Lark riser. So I bought one for a “throw in back of car” bow. I am surprised at the fit and finis, better than some custom bows. Only issue I have had is the limb adjustment screws backing out. 

 Yes, I have a custom bow and it has a few marks on it but I am not into decorations I want a shooter. Custom for me is the fit in my hand.

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Sun City, Az. by way of San Diego, Ca. Bear TD's Wes Wallace Royal LB, ILF risers and various limbs, Vintage Works 1962 Kodiak reproduction made to my specs

I hunt public land.
Arrow Hunter

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Reply with quote  #13 
A tool is a tool. But some tools are better than others. One thing I ascribe to is, Mojo. Some got it. Some don’t. When you have a bowyer making you a bow, and he/she is committed to the creation of your desires through their artistic talents, you may well be on the road to some serious Mojo. Just saying. The element of artistic craftsmanship lends to a unique experience between bow and archer.
Ugly Coyote

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Reply with quote  #14 
You also have to consider the quantities Samick produces. They make bows under many different names. Sometimes a few minor things are changed, bur overall it's the same bow.

When a company can mass produce an item they have a strong market for, they can keep the price point low and still make a healthy profit.

I bought a 66" 35# PSE Razorback. Looks a lot like a Samick doesn't it? I wanted 45# limbs, so I ordered Samick limbs. Did they fit? Of course they did. The tips were a bit smaller on the Samick limbs and the finish was flat instead of glossy as on the Razorback.
 
Also, Samick  is a South Korean company. I read somewhere they make high end target bows in South Korea and everything else in China.
old buck

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Reply with quote  #15 
Ah yes, tools and art. Bows can be both.
Just like cheap tools that are made of inferior materials and have no warranty and typically break you can also buy top line with lifetime warranties.
Then you have less expensive bows with virtually no warranty and not so pleasing to the eye. On the opposite end you have the high end highly crafted bows with exotic woods and excellent warranties.

AND if you have really deep pockets and love art and craftsmanship at the highest level there's the Blacktail Legacy series.

I have a 56 year Browning Safari II and a new Blacktail Sitka .
Being an artist/sculptor myself I really love my custom ( to my specifications ) Sitka even though I'm still paying for it.
44 Sitka.jpg 


Draven

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Reply with quote  #16 

To answer the question: The Hoyt and Co are not ripping you. Without their proved design clones will not exist. 

I had a Sage, decent bow. I’ve gave it away to find out that after a year the riser broke on the new owner. What you pay is what you get, disregarding the performance you might achieve with it.


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fewfeathers

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quality control is an expensive part of production. Some of the problems I've seen on mass produced bows are: Poor tiller, uneven string notches, rough/sharp string notches. The only bows I've had fail were inexpensive bows. I still believe many of them are excellent bows.
I think the dollar value is very high. 
I also agree that they are (for the most part) as accurate as a more expensive bow. I've also found that more expensive bows do perform better.
Dollar value for many custom bows is very high. The bowyer doesn't get what their time in development, QC and actual build time and skill is really worth. I also like the imponderables (Mojo) that you rarely get with not so expensive bows. 
I really enjoy the beauty of  these "expansive" bows. When I break from shooting, I can sit and marvel at it.
The only con: When people see my bow, they expect me to shoot a lot better than I do. 
Orion

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Reply with quote  #18 
One more reason foreign made bows can be sold cheaper, in addition to the cheaper labor and cost of materials, is they don't have to pay the 11% Pittman Robertson tax, which is charged on all U.S manufacturers. All the money collected through that tax goes to wildlife management. There's a good article about this in the latest issue of Bugle magazine.   
timking

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Reply with quote  #19 

I have owned way more bows than I would ever care for my wife to know of, and I have only had 3 failures over 30 years of owning custom bows....unbelievably 2 of those happened this year with in weeks of one another. They were both brand new and had only been in my possession for a few days. They were both very expensive bows, and in both cases the bowyers took care of the problem. One bowyer made the comment that he switched to a new “foreign” fiberglass for the first time on my bow. The other bowyer gave no explanation, but didn’t seem as surprised as I would have expected. My wife has a Samick Sage that I paid less than $200 That has been strung for 4 years and shoots terrific.
At the end of the day, they are still wood that just like us, is going to have issues eventually.
Agree 100% with few feathers, perhaps people would expect less of you with a uglier bow!


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Dallas, Texas
62" #55 Fox High Sierra 
62" #58 Black Widow MA
64" #56 A&H ACS 
Widowmaker 350 Carbon shafts
200 gr. Iron Will 4 blade



Tom M

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Reply with quote  #20 

Well said Timking, my wife’s bow is a PSE I bought her back in the late 90’s. She liked the “color” of the wood riser and white limbs. Everytime I mention new bow for one reason or another she brings up the fact that hers still shoots fine. 

 One thing about inexpensive bows, if I fell I want to move on it’s not a big hit in the pocket book.


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Charter Member Traditional Archery Society

Sun City, Az. by way of San Diego, Ca. Bear TD's Wes Wallace Royal LB, ILF risers and various limbs, Vintage Works 1962 Kodiak reproduction made to my specs

I hunt public land.
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