photo f2fc6645-3553-483b-b64e-4c19058f6c05_zps121db233.jpg  photo 7B537578-F7C7-4F86-98B8-9F94E0644C33_zpsqirpypxs.jpg  photo jdberry_zpsea01d711.jpg  photo grizzlybroadheads_zps1m2s5rho.jpg  photo banner-kking-160-170_zps48e9d6a9.jpg  photo HolmMadeNewAd_09092014_zpsc4e4691d.jpg  photo truenortharrows_zpsi9ay4gwc.gif  photo 35A0AFC6-0F9E-412C-A64B-EBE54AF0479D_zpsmipyof8e.jpg  photo EEE5CA06-2368-4F2F-A920-0CA562579FE0_zpsm9lvvu1t.jpg  photo northernmist20bcard1_zpssaxw3n46.jpg  photo 072BD871-7553-4294-BBDD-E69370AD1F6A_zpsjismq5n7.jpg                                     photo AFF3B4E3-F518-4092-A4E6-65AE830AB2BE_zpsnuwaaten.jpg  photo f5d37de7-de84-47ad-b248-e8adfe84c5db_zps4oisluth.gif  photo 02c77249-7155-4785-a743-8faf8c694e7a_zpseaj9xlnz.jpg  photo B5D4E580-5A4C-4A25-AC73-D69CDBE82A69_zpsvvtli29v.jpg  photo Dave_shooting_bow_logo202_zpsuskt81vw.jpg  photo image_zps2rrhsrju.jpeg  photo sunsethill_zps551c0207.jpg  photo db77abad-c90f-4ee5-9e34-905fe0c0fd36_zpsleoiybdo.png  photo bigjim_zps76882839.jpg  photo howardhill_large_zps5fd2fcc7.jpg  photo IMG_5966_zpsgrbhwrgb.jpeg  photo Bearpaw_Products_Logo1_zps55d85f33.jpg  photo tradtech_zps697b00c1.jpg  photo a3c08d6f-f669-46b5-8b0c-1480a411cc78_zpsc853b3a6.gif  photo fairbow_zpsc278ec39.jpg  photo F5A4B354-1040-4D43-939F-28ED48F7E5B7_zpsws5ptsc8.jpg  photo coyote track 1_zpshipxn54s.png  photo DF07A98B-41BB-4024-BCF7-A4FCB543D40E_zpsoiduf1m2.png  photo the20footed20shaft_zpsudbyv3ab.jpg  photo blackeaglefinal_zpsfqgqqrcj.png  photo 94936CDE-4CF5-4181-B2F9-FECCA1FE886F_zpsy5nfpirv.jpg photo D49F4739-A11D-4F9D-9D50-4C3EE95E9555_zpswoqwk23o.jpg  photo BF4712C7-9EE6-460F-8380-4E7F08A65416_zpsmluzlgny.jpg  photo bivoucascreenshot_zpscfdgf0n0.jpg  photo 510CA748-680D-4178-8B50-1A4C7F7F895D_zps6b5pjjoc.gif
Traditional Archers | Bowhunters
Sign up Calendar Latest Topics Chat
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment  
HighNTree

Associate Member
Registered:
Posts: 38
Reply with quote  #1 
What do you consider to be more important when looking for a new bow?  Is it the the bow itself or the reputation and track record of the bowyer?  For me a bow is only as good as the man or women who stands behind it.  Some bowyers have a stellar reputation for not only building a great bow but for being honest, reliable, and all around stand-up guys.  For me, a bow is only 40 percent of the equation.  

What are your thoughts?
Tom M

Avatar / Picture

Charter Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,803
Reply with quote  #2 
Maybe I am selfish but I want both. A bowyer who is pleasant to work with and a product of exceptional value. Another consideration is what others have to say about how that bowyer handled an unforeseen problem with the bow. Like a lot of others here I have been on various websites over the last 10-15 years and it that time have not read about that many “bad” bowyers. Frankly they don’t last long thank goodness. Yes, it is important how we interact with a person we are about to give about $1k to. It’s no different than dealing with a person we are buying a used bow from IMO. If I don’t feel comfortable I walk away and that’s with anything I am buying not just a custom bow.

__________________
Charter Member Traditional Archery Society

Sun City, Az. by way of San Diego, Ca. Bear TD's Wes Wallace Royal LB, ILF risers and various limbs, Vintage Works 1962 Kodiak reproduction made to my specs

I hunt public land.
Clydebow

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,472
Reply with quote  #3 
 A bowyer can be the most honest stand-up person and make a bad  bow. I'm not going to buy a bow I don't care for from someone just because the bowyer is a great person. On the other hand, I've meet bowyers who seem off putting from the start, but wouldn't buy their product to reward them for being a jerk, even if I liked their bow. 
timking

Avatar / Picture

TAS Upgrade Member
Registered:
Posts: 3,635
Reply with quote  #4 
I have learned, just deal with Black Widow and Bob Lee and you get both!!!!
Great topic, especially if we can keep it a non bowyer bashing thread!

totally agree with Tom, I want both, and I think it USUALLY goes hand in hand. As Clyde said tho, I have had some really exceptional bows built by a bowyer that is very, very, difficult to deal with, and some mediocre ones built by awesome guys...
the market usually takes care of that

I also remember a wise bowyer said though, As$h0&# bowyers get that way cuz of As$h0&# customers!
I can only imagine what its like trying to meet production and some guy like me calls 5 times a month!



__________________

Dallas, Texas
62" #55 Fox High Sierra 
62" #58 Black Widow MA
64" #56 A&H ACS 
Widowmaker 350 Carbon shafts
200 gr. Iron Will 4 blade



Clovis6

Avatar / Picture

TAS Upgrade Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,735
Reply with quote  #5 
Most of the time I buy used or in-stock bows. In the past 40 years I have had 8-9 bows that were built "custom" for me by various bowyers. In only one instance was I dissatisfied with both the treatment I received from the bowyer and the quality of the bow. In this case, the style of the bow was not as it was described on the website, the bow missed weight by probably 10#, and the bowyer was noncommunicative concerning the status of the build for months at a time. While he ultimately fixed the bow problems, I would not do another deal with him.

Good customer experiences and good bows tend to go hand in hand for me. A good bow requires both skill in the bowyer's hands and a passionate desire to make a bow that's good for me, not someone else. A good bowyer asks lots of questions and actually listens to my answers. He or she wants to know what I like/don't like, how I am going to use the bow, and what I consider most important in a bow. A good bowyer also suggests things that might improve my bow, even if they are different from what I think I want. In my case anyways, the customer is not always right; sometimes the customer is just plain dumb.

__________________

Shooting right now (Sep 2020): 
Northern Mist Sprague Longbow, 66", #52
Bodnik Mohawk Chief Longbow, 62", #50
Black Widow PTFX Recurve, 60", #50
   
Doylestown, PA / Reston, VA
OrionII

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 121
Reply with quote  #6 
I don't see how one could separate one from the other.  A bowyer doesn't get a good reputation as a builder unless he/she builds a good bow.  Of course, one's social skills may not match his/her bow making skills. I find that if I'm happy with the bowyer I'm happy with the bow he/she builds. Of course, I always do my due diligence before buying a bow.
Selden Slider

Avatar / Picture

Charter Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,843
Reply with quote  #7 
Yep, I'm with Tom.  I want both, a quality bow from a reputable bowyer.  That's not too much to ask.  Frank
__________________
Charter Member Traditional Archery Society
Draven

Avatar / Picture

Club Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,717
Reply with quote  #8 
I experienced this - very interesting looking bow and unknown (for me) bowyer. The appealing bow design made me want it, the bowyer tracking work made me buy it. This applied to Yumi ASL.

__________________
"Practice not until you get it right, practice until you can't get it wrong." - Unknown
steelflight

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,642
Reply with quote  #9 
I like to get to know my Boyer. So as long as I like them.
__________________
You may think before you act the question is do you listen to your own counsel.
James Calamaris

Avatar / Picture

Club Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,309
Reply with quote  #10 
I am in the "I want both" category.
__________________
Jim Calamaris 
Portage,IN.

Club Member Traditional Archery Society

jsweka

Avatar / Picture

Charter Member
Registered:
Posts: 405
Reply with quote  #11 
I'd say for most people, it is the bowyer and their reputation.  Big Name = greater desire to own one.

A perfect example.....I'm a hobbyist bowyer, but I think I make a pretty decent ASL.  Dan Breen likes them anyway [wink] .  A couple years ago at ETAR, I put a couple bows of my creation on the swap blanket and made sure I had a price tag readily visible.  I was only asking $100 - $125 to cover the costs of materials.  I got a lot of lookers who would pick up a bow and then say "That's a nice bow, who made it?"  After saying I made it, they'd put it back down, say I did nice work and move on.  The internal conversation they had with themselves is who the hell is John Sweka and why would I want one of his bows?

So I think it's mostly in a name and not the bow itself.

__________________
Charter Member Traditional Archery Society
Yehwa

Avatar / Picture

Club Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,462
Reply with quote  #12 
John ,yep you do make a great shooting bow .and I do like them .lol. Hey man faster than a jet 🏹😂. Inside joke . And I would put your bows up against anybody's
1Arrow1Kill

Avatar / Picture

Associate Member
Registered:
Posts: 7
Reply with quote  #13 
Interesting question . . . after some deliberation I've decided that the bow is most important to me.  It must feel right, shot great and perform in all the conditions I place it.  The bowyer, while the bow's architect, is less important to me than the final product during the life of the bow.  I take the bow to the woods, not the bowyer. 

Same with vehicles, clothes and other gear . . .  as long as it feels rights, works great and performs in all the conditions I place it, I really don't care what manufacturer's label is on the item.

I can understand and respect other's feeling differently.

__________________
I Become the Tree until I Become the Arrow.
timking

Avatar / Picture

TAS Upgrade Member
Registered:
Posts: 3,635
Reply with quote  #14 
Welcome 1 arrow!
__________________

Dallas, Texas
62" #55 Fox High Sierra 
62" #58 Black Widow MA
64" #56 A&H ACS 
Widowmaker 350 Carbon shafts
200 gr. Iron Will 4 blade



Steve Turay

Avatar / Picture

Sponsor
Registered:
Posts: 338
Reply with quote  #15 
Welcome 1 arrow kill, I see you're from my old stomping grounds.
__________________
Sponsor Traditional Archery Society
PUBLIC LAND HUNTER
docpain

Associate Member
Registered:
Posts: 78
Reply with quote  #16 
Been thinking about this for a while. I believe most shooters go by the bowyer than the bow. My reason for this is that it is the only way I can explain so many used bows on the market made by “top bowyers”. Years ago I was as guilty of the same thing. I ordered so called custom bows that were all made on the same form and were the same as the next guys except for the weight marked on them and the name inscribed. I haven’t ordered a custom bow in years. I find a used one for a decent price and buy it. If it seems to perform well at my draw I keep it. If not it goes back up for sale. Then I take a file and sand paper to make the grip and rest area to my liking so that I get a nice repeatable grip without any extra thought on my part during the shot process. If I ever order a custom bow again it will be custom. To me that means designed and tillered to perform best my draw and a bower that will be willing to work with me on my exact handle size and shape to fit me. If I have to travel to see the bowyer to discuss and deliberate with him on the build then so be it. After all I am paying for custom so that’s what it should be.
__________________
If it isn't life or death, it's no big deal.
Lbhunter63

Avatar / Picture

Club Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,567
Reply with quote  #17 
I'm in the "little bit of both" category...generally speaking, I've found that a bowyer with a great reputation doesn't earn that reputation by being a jerk or producing shoddy workmanship.  The other thing a quality bowyer will ensure is the bow that I get is the bow that I want.  Some guys think within ten pounds is "good enough" and they write the weight you order on the side of the bow...the scale may tell a completely different story.  I've also found the bow produced by fella with the good rep is a bow that will feel right, be a good looker and put arrows where intended.
__________________
- LB - 
HHA - Big Five, 93@28"; Schulz American Longbow - Trophy Hunter, 83@28"; HHA - Big Five, 80@28"; Chastain - Wapiti T/D, 77@28"; Bighorn Longbow, 75@28"; Northern Mist Classic, 75@28"; Zebra - Grevy, 74@28"; HHA - Jaguar, 70@28"; HHA - Wesley Special, 70@28"; Kramer - Autumn, 70@28"; Great Plains - Rio Bravo T/D,70@28"; Kramer - Autumn, 74@30";  Kramer - Big Five, 65@28"; Ben Pearson - Hunter, 65@28"; Herter's - Perfection Mag T/D, 64@28"; Bear - Super Kodiak, 60@28"; New Wood - Legacy, 58@28"; Bear - Grizzly, 55@28"

Dedicated to preserving, promoting and hunting on public lands.

Club Member Traditional Archery Society and John Schulz' Shooting Straight Graduate
chuckc

Avatar / Picture

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 7,026
Reply with quote  #18 
Many / most bowyers that have been around the block do actually custom design their bow around your draw and weight desires. The form is unchanged but everything else is. On a non-custom bow it's like going to the car lot. On a custom bow you order what you want. Same vehicle, but made to your spec's.
__________________
ChuckC

Charter Member Traditional Archery Society

I did too !

Madison, Wisconsin.   Public land hunter
Draven

Avatar / Picture

Club Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,717
Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckc
On a custom bow you order what you want. Same vehicle, but made to your spec's.


This is something that always made me wonder if is true for bows. When I want to order a custom katana from Japan I am asked to give also personal measurements of the hand (width of the palm, length of fingers etc) to make a handle that fits me. Is this true for longbows too? Or custom stops at material choice and "dished vs straight" handle. Can you get a 67" longbow just because for your draw length this is the length you need to get the best from the working limbs? How much "Custom" it is custom?

__________________
"Practice not until you get it right, practice until you can't get it wrong." - Unknown
chuckc

Avatar / Picture

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 7,026
Reply with quote  #20 
Depends on the Bowyer. The last one I dealt with (you all know him) talked to me for a long time asking ME questions like those you just posed, and more, including my expectations.

Remember....more modern bows (glassed laminated) require forms. Forms mean certain shapes. Certain shapes require certain lengths in order to utilize the shape in the bows physical abilities.

It is tough to have forms for 70, 69, 68, 67, etc bows, each tweaked to be identical but smaller ( scaled).

The Bowyer is selling a thing...a Ramer, a Valor, etc. Those represent certain shapes and looks.

__________________
ChuckC

Charter Member Traditional Archery Society

I did too !

Madison, Wisconsin.   Public land hunter
Draven

Avatar / Picture

Club Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,717
Reply with quote  #21 
Thank you Chuck for the answer. It is what I was expecting.
__________________
"Practice not until you get it right, practice until you can't get it wrong." - Unknown
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.